Help with start up after removing carbs

[Fishrider]

I am getting stupid close to getting this bike back on the road, but I can't test my new output shaft fix unless I can get the bike running. The last time I started it up before I needed to solve the output shaft issue as related in the Ongoing Projects thread, it started and seemed to run fine. Then on start up after getting everything buttoned up I could not get it to idle. I attempted to adjust the idle with the idle screw and the problem got worse until I could not keep the bike running at all. It would turn over though. So I pulled the carbs just to inspect them. They are clean as a whistle. Just as I had given them to the mechanics. I did adjust the pilot jets to 1.5 turns out. They were originally 2 turns. On re-install of the carbs the bike will not turn over. I tried for a long while and after letting it sit several times. Spark is good. Connections are, as far as I can tell, all good. Dumped old fuel and added new. Fuel is in float bowls. Petcock on. I am not certain that fuel is getting to the combustion chamber. Plugs are dry. What are the next steps?

[Richard]

Plugs are dry you mention, that's weird as if you have no ignition and mixture is getting into the cylinder they should be wet...

Anyway, I had exactly the same issue a while back after wintertime, I prepped the carbs as normal but no starting whatsoever. To make a long story short, the carbs were filled with watery fuel. Modern fule does this, it attracts water which sinks down in your tank. Water is heavier than fuel so all your petcock is supplying is water. At the end I cleaned the carbs again (all jets) with compressed air after which it started normal...

Come to think of it, I wonder if water is indeed in your carbs will the suction be enough to het it into your cylinders, for sure it will not create a mixture but I'm guessing water is to heavy to get sucked out through those tiny jet holes. This could explain why your plugs are dry? I even tried jump starting it for a long tiime using my car battery whithout luck...

Perhaps you have the same issue?

[Jen-etc]

This makes me nervous for my own looming first start up.

Definitely sounds like some sort of fuel issues but I’m afraid I just don’t have the experience/knowledge to share any useful words of advice. really hope you get it sorted

Richard you say about water in the fuel, I’ve never heard of this before, where is the water coming from? As in there’s moisture in the fuel added or it’s finding moisture residue elsewhere in the system and pooling it in the carbs? I’ve been really careful to keep my whole system’s components sealed up before I refit it all, so I’ll be annoyed if there’s that much moisture to worry about!

[ZoneAdmin]

Are all the jets and airways in the carbs clear?

[Fishrider]

As much as I don’t want to, I’ll pull the carbs again and do a thorough inspection and cleaning. Once done I’ll report back. Let’s see: undo clamps, remove fuel tube, drain tube, vacuum tubes, undo boot holders, force carbs past boots, remove throttle cable…grumble a lot. And that’s the easy part. LOL

[Richard]

This makes me nervous for my own looming first start up.

Definitely sounds like some sort of fuel issues but I’m afraid I just don’t have the experience/knowledge to share any useful words of advice. really hope you get it sorted

Richard you say about water in the fuel, I’ve never heard of this before, where is the water coming from? As in there’s moisture in the fuel added or it’s finding moisture residue elsewhere in the system and pooling it in the carbs? I’ve been really careful to keep my whole system’s components sealed up before I refit it all, so I’ll be annoyed if there’s that much moisture to worry about!

Nowadays fuel contains ethanol which is hychroscopic meaning it attracks and holds water molecules from the surrounding (moist) air. Water is heavier then fuel so it will sink to the bottom of your tank causing all kind of issues like corrosion and realy bad fuel. If this water enters your carbs it will clog the jets and the vacuum from the cylinders is not enough to remove it if it is really just water...

Before winter storage make sure you have a full tank or drain the complete system (including carb bowls). Before spring start up shake your bike sideways a couple of times so water gets mixed again and do this every time before a ride untill your get some new fuel. Or just fill the tank if you drained the system

[Fishrider]

Checked over all the the carbs. Blew them out and cleaned them. Checked the pilot jets. Everything was super clean. After hooking up the carbs I am now getting no fuel into the bowls. Petcock is new and works. I created a vacuum by sucking on the petcock vacuum tube and the gas spills out. While there is fuel in the fuel line (the end part of my fuel line is clear), when I create a vacuum on the petcock it does not seem that the fuel is moving into the bowls. I did spray a little gas into carb 1, and it does turn over. So, I assume, compression is good. I am just not getting any fuel into the carburetor. I am missing something simple I think.

[Jen-etc]

Nowadays fuel contains ethanol which is hychroscopic meaning it attracks and holds water molecules from the surrounding (moist) air. Water is heavier then fuel so it will sink to the bottom of your tank causing all kind of issues like corrosion and realy bad fuel. If this water enters your carbs it will clog the jets and the vacuum from the cylinders is not enough to remove it if it is really just water...

Before winter storage make sure you have a full tank or drain the complete system (including carb bowls). Before spring start up shake your bike sideways a couple of times so water gets mixed again and do this every time before a ride untill your get some new fuel. Or just fill the tank if you drained the system

Thanks for this info - I was unaware. Wondering if this might have something to do with the issues I’ve encountered with my er5 that’s been unexpectedly laid up for a while.
I’m refusing to touch it until the zephyr is finished (time on the er5 is time better spent on the zephyr!) but will bare this in mind when I eventually pull the carbs on that.

Good tips about swishing the fuel too -thanks.

I am just not getting any fuel into the carburetor. I am missing something simple I think.

This sounds frustrating and simple but I have no insights to help I’m afraid. Hopefully it is something really simple, you’ll curse yourself when you realise!

[hugojose]

No offense, but it is very confusing how you write. Apparently, you call 'turn-over' catching and running on its own. I understand 'turn-over' as just cranking or moving by hand.

Don't see why you have to suck vacuum into the petcock. Put it on prime, fuel should flow freely, and vacuum is out of the picture. It should be easy to see it flowing (even by detaching hose).

If fuel is going to the carbs, it should get in the bowls, gravity would see to that unless intake line is clogged, or valves needles are stuck (all of them???). You have not said anything about where the fuel level in the carbs bowls is, or float heights.

[Jen-etc]

I was just coming on to say have you checked the float heights / valves.
I was just cleaning mine and suddenly thought I wonder if that's stopping the fuel coming through?